About doing Darshan of Guru Nanak Patshah's "Deh"

One Veerji has commented (with regards to the dohira post )
"I think its right not to treat Guru Granth Sahibs Saroop as an idol and start doing everything that Hindus do for their idols.

But having said that,I have read about Baba Nand Singhs reverence for Guru Sahibs Saroop.He treated Guru Sahibs Saroop as pargat Guran ki deh and even got darshan of Guru Nanak Dev ji in flesh and blood from it.From this I think its not wrong to treat Guru Sahibs Saroop as Pargat Guran ki Deh."

befor we move forward first let us remember :
ਭੁਲਣ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਅਭੁਲੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥
bhulan andar sabh ko abhul guroo kartaar.

now , about Nand Singh ji doing Guru Shibs darshan , please see what Guru Granth sahib says about the "Human Body":

ਜਾ ਭਜੈ ਤਾ ਠੀਕਰੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਾੜਤ ਘੜੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਪਤਿ, ਪਤਿ ਵਿਣੁ
ਪਾਰਿ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥1॥
ਅਰਥ :-ਜਦੋਂ (ਇਹ ਸਰੀਰ-ਰੂਪ ਭਾਂਡਾ) ਟੁੱਟ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ (ਇਹ ਤਾਂ) ਠੀਕਰਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਕਿਸੇ ਕੰਮ ਦਾ
ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਂਦਾ) ਤੇ ਮੁੜ ਇਹ (ਸਰੀਰਕ) ਬਣਤਰ ਬਣ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦੀ । ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ)
ਗੁਰੂ (ਦੀ ਸਰਨ) ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਤੋਂ ਵਾਂਜਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ (ਇਸ ਔਝੜ
ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਪਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੰਘ ਸਕਦਾ ।1।

This shabad is on ang 138 . Guru Shaib does not lie , he does not make one rule for the whole universe and one for himself. So Guru shib makes it clear that all this story about guru shib giving bodily darshan is either made up by an over zealous follower of Nand Singh ji or is a Hoax to make guru shib a part of hindu fairy tales where guru shib comes and gives darshan like Devtas (shiv etc) to give them vardan.

Moreover , In gurmat there is absolutely ZERO relevance of "deh" and complete and total reverence of "jyot" i.e. "Gyan & Guna" .
which can be seen from the following Gur shabads and sakhis :

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ 3 ॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਹੰਸ ਕਿਆ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਹੈ ਜਿ ਪਇਆ ਹੀ ਛਡਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਏਸ ਨੋ ਕੂੜੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਕਿ
ਖਵਾਲੀਐ ਜਿ ਚਲਦਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਮਿਟੀ ਅੰਧੁ ਹੈ ਪਉਣੈ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਹਉ ਤਾ
ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਤੋ ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਜਿ ਰਹਾ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇ

ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ 1 ॥ ਸੁਣਿ ਮਨ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ, ਮਿਲੁ, ਵੇਲਾ ਹੈ ਏਹੁ ॥ ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਜੋਬਨਿ ਸਾਸੁ ਹੈ
ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਦੇਹ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਣ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਢਹਿ ਢੇਰੀ ਤਨੁ ਖੇਹੁ ॥1॥

ਅਰਥ :-ਜੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਗੁਣ (ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰ) ਨਾਹ ਵਸਾਏ, ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਿਸ ਕੰਮ?ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਆਖ਼ਰ ਢਹਿ ਕੇ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਦੀ ਢੇਰੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਇਗਾ ।1।

popular Sakhi : We are all told the sakhi that when Guru Nanak got old , one day he started acting like a mad man and started hitting everyone ( it is said that even bhai Budha Ji ) ran away and hid. Only Bhai Lehna Ji remained. The next day when guru sahib started acting normally , everyone came back. Moral of the incicent that Guru sahib taught everyone by this acting is that , it his Gunas and Gyan (jyot) that are the guru and this body is of no relevance. When they saw that there are no gunas left in that body and the guru was acting like mad they left and came back only whe they saw the same gyan & gunas . Hence , everyone understood .Then when Guru sahib gave the siri sahib to Guru Angad and made him the Guru no one needed to be explained.

Now the question will arize that all the seva at Gurdwaras , is it wrong ? what about all the chawar ,chatter & takhat ? Are we doing deh pooja by doing that ? Well the answer is that we should know why all that is done othet it will end up as moorti pooja :

why we have the big chattar (chandowa or Canopy ) , Chawar & Takhat (throne) for the guru sahib. And why Guru sahib travels with such honour.

It is not because we concider the Guru Granth Sahib as a human being. And he goes to sleep at night. etc. etc.

It is because since the time of the 6th Guru ( Guru Hargobind , Sache Patshah) the Guru has taken control of Miri & Piri both. So the Guru has also become the King and with the King comes the Throne , the Decorated Chatter & the Chaur sahib. And whenever the King travels , it is with Pomp and Show.

But we should make it our point to understand the Guru has now completely become " Bani roop " , he is no longer available to us in the Human Form . His human form has passed over to the Khalsa. We should not be expecting the guru to be perorming Magic and turning into a body !

Moreoevr Guru Sahib himself condems moorti pooja , we as sikhs would be wrong if we indulge in similar moorti pooja of Guru Granth Sahib. All the regalia and the ceremony around Guru Sahib is because Guru Shib is the King of this world and the Next.

I think in our " Shradha " we completely forget gurmat sometimes and start copying hindoos and believing in their concepts. I hope It is clear by now that it is not " hindoo mandir worship " that is the cause of the cerimonies at the "Gurdwara ".


Read the following post with a big heart & not with precocived notions . because when some of our seniors have been doing something and someone raises a finger against it we say , our seniors could nevber be wrong but we forget :

ਭੁਲਣ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਅਭੁਲੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥
bhulan andar sabh ko abhul guroo kartaar.

Now,Bhai Sahib Prehlad singh ji was a sikh from Guru Gobind Singh ji's time and the dohira he wrote was :

Agya Bhai Akal Ki Tabe Chalyo Panth
Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth
Guru Khalsa Manyo Prakat Guran Ki Deh
Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe Khoj Sabad Mein Leh

Note that It was written that Guru Granth sahib is the guru , but the deh of the guru is the Khalsa .

It was only in the later rehitnamas ( infact during the late 1700s when the khalsa did not have the control over the Gurdwaras) that we find the line as Guru Granth ji maneyo pragat guran ki deh ... One of the cause of this is understood by researchers is that many shradhaloo hindus & pandits were serving the gurudwaras and they ( conciously or uncociously ) brought in the hindu Idol worship into Simple sikhi. Because if you start concidering Gurusahibs shabad saroop as a body :"DEH" then we will start putting bhog of food , ac rooms , rajaiyan over guru sahib etc etc.....I just hope we just dont start giving Ishnann to guru sahib one day !

Respect of our guru sahib is of utmost importance but it should be in the paradigm the guru has set forth , i.e.:
1) High quality paper , good & soft rumally , padded pillows etc so that the guru sahibs swaroop can be maintained in the best quality for longger periods & readability is easy.
2) as we the Khalsa are the deh of the guru , we should keep it in its natural & best form. Ishanan , exercise & daily bhojan of naam jaap & keertan is necessary . More so , since now we represent the gurus "body".So please never distort the gurus body , never take aways the shasters from the gurus body . give it the healthest diet possible ( both physical & naam ) .

Hope this post is not viewd a s post of heritic.

I would also like to nip the qurry in the bud , Beacause many people will ask that so and so sant used to take Guru sahibs swaroop as pragat guran ki deh . So once when he had done the sukhasan seva and forgotten a pankhudi of a flower inside guru sahis swaroop. He was not able to sleep all night and keep on having pain all over the body . so he begged for mercey next orning etc.

I have only one question to ask from all of these sadh & sants ( currently 1300 regisdered deras in punjab) : Where were they & what pain did they have when 2500 Swaroops where burnt and bombarded with tanks at Akal takht sahin in 84 ? what kind of pain did they have in their body then ? & what did they do to alleviate the pain ?

"itihas" & "mithihas"

This only for Those who have a unbiased and open mind and are not scred to accept that even the most reverd can make mistakes ( even guru sahib sayes that : ਭੁਲਣ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਅਭੁਲੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥
bhulan andar sabh ko abhul guroo kartaar.
Everyone makes mistakes; only the Guru and the Creator are infallible.)

This is a set of audio discussing what is "itihas" & "mithihas" , how to work forward for the future genrations of sikhi.


Rize and awke. Let gyan help us in bhagti because :

ਗਿਆਨ ਹੀਣੰ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਪੂਜਾ ॥
gi-aan heenaN agi-aan poojaa.
Without spiritual wisdom, the people worship ignorance.

ਅੰਧ ਵਰਤਾਵਾ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੨੨॥
anDh vartaavaa bhaa-o doojaa. ||22||
They grope in the darkness, in the love of duality. ||22|| (page 1412)


We are aware that the sangat of meenas , masands , kurimar , Narimar and ramraiyaas is banned.
But why did guru ji ban them?
Because they acted as if they were guruji's sikhs (only in appearence and name sake) but actually did activiries totally against gurmat. Ramraiyaas went to the extent of changing guru sahibs banee.

I am writing this, because even though I have never met a menas, masands etc. , but recently I have met a Radha Swamee follower in my office. In my office there are no amritdhari Gursikhs , so I thought it would not be bad to do his sangat as he is at least spiritually oriented.

he told me a story that was told to him in his sangat .

From that story I gathered what image of guru sahib is being projected to make empires in the name of spirituality and fleecing innocent people .

Here is the story, take every ""word"" seriously:

" The message of Guru Nanak , that is the message of "sant-mat" , was so powerful that had it been let to spred on its own the whole world would have left their homes and become sadhus. It is for this reason that the khalsa panth was created, so that people would think that , oh , the message of guru Nanak is for these people only . it is not for us. "

On a cursory look at this story you would say, not that big a blasphemy ... there are bigger attacks going on.

Read the passage again and you will come to know what the story teller is selling, he/she is trying to tell u that :

1.) Guru Nanak Patshah Came with a message of Sant-mat not Gurmat , i.e. u dont go to Guru Granth sahib , it is only a holy book ...the true message & naam will be given to you by me the sant ...( p.s. not intend to disrespect the fact that there are many gurmukh sant purakhs like Bhai sahib Randheer Singh , Baba Jarnail Singh ji , Baba Attar Singh ji , baba Isher Singh ji ... but any one of them never opened any shop selling their own form of sikhi & personalized gurmanters etc. )

2.) Following guru Nanak you will become reclusive sadhus ??? (wow ! the followers of a grehist ( householder ) guru will become sadhus !

3)wow this point is hilarious : the Khalsa was created for no divine purpose , it was only to hide the message of Nanak from the rest of the world. please , my friends DO I even need to say anything to refute this statement. What this statement actually means: well all those of you people who don’t want to keep the rehit of 5 kakars (kesh , kirpan , kanga , kara , kachehra) ....can come to my shop and take the mantar , because being a Khalsa is not important.

All above I have written is "ninda" and I know I will have to pay for it. But , when someone tries to undermine the respect of guru sahib in such a way ... how can one stay without speaking up ?

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